MAXINE McKEW: Prime Minister, if as you say you can't rule out that possibility that we could have potential bombers right here in Australia, what if today's announcement, this redeployment to Afghanistan and our continued presence in Iraq is all the provocation they need?
JOHN HOWARD: Maxine, these people are opposed to what we believe in and what we stand for, far more than what we do. If you imagine that you can buy immunity from fanatics by curling yourself in a ball, apologising for the world - to the world - for who you are and what you stand for and what you believe in, not only is that morally bankrupt, but it's also ineffective. Because fanatics despise a lot of things and the things they despise most is weakness and timidity. There has been plenty of evidence through history that fanatics attack weakness and retreating people even more savagely than they do defiant people.
(HT: Instapundit, who credited Art Vandalay posting at Tim Blair.)
Sunday, July 17, 2005
Sic 'em, Aussies!
Absolute brilliance (from Hugh Hewitt):
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8 comments:
vandalay? as in vandalay industries? the latex manufacturer?
"These people are opposed to what we believe in and what we stand for, far more than what we do."
Before we get into a knock-down drag-out argument in which neither of us influences the other's thinking at all, standingout, do you really believe that this statement is true? You know where I stand--we hashed out Bin Laden and his motives in a great discussion on your blog a few weeks ago, and j. morgan and you went at what I'll call "the grievances hypothesis" as well. It goes like this. Was 9/11 justified? No. Was 9/11 in response to specific US actions? Yes.
So if you answer my question with a "Yes, absolutely," then we can move on to a more profitable topic;" if you say "Yes, with some qualifications," maybe we can have another discussion.
I would have to say "Yes with some qualifications." I don't think that it was in direct response to some US action that we can nail down and correct. I think US policy over the years contributed to their actions for sure. But I also think that you can say that, at this point, more than anything we do, they hate the idea of the US. I don't think OBL is some depraved maniac who hates it when anyone is happy or free, but I do think that he is evil (because of the methods he is willing to use) and that he hates the US in general. And I think that hatred is widespread in the ME for a variety of reasons. One reason is the things we've done there in the past, although I think support of Israel is one of the bigger reasons in that category (as opposed to any other political action there). I also think that they hate our culture in general because they think it is immoral and offensive to Allah. They hate that such a culture is a prominent driving force in the world and they want to destroy us. And they hate the idea of tolerance when they are not in charge. I say this because the old Muslim empire was moderately tolerant of religious differences, but its easy to be tolerant of a few lower-caste citizens when you are a dominant force. Its much harder to be tolerant of a different group when they are in charge. I guess I'm saying its much easier to be tolerant when its an act of benevolence rather than one of acceptance of someone else's ideal. And so I believe that at this point the terrorists and their sympathizers hate 'the idea of the US' far more than any US action or policy.
And that extends to 'the idea of Western nations', especially those that side with the US.
I appreciate your insights about Muslims in the past: you've clearly read up on medieval history.
Maybe we differ quantitatively and not qualitatively. I absolutely believe that there are a number of Muslim extremists like the "they" you keep talking about, and I absolutely think Bin Laden is evil and should be brought to justice. I guess I just think that there are fewer of the pure haters than you do.
Well, I don't know how many of the pure haters there are, but they are the ones we need to fight. Anyone who can be worked with peacefully should be, and perhaps we're not doing all we can in that area. However, there are these 'pure haters' and we cannot appease them.
This iis a great blog
Thank you for wwriting this
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